Feb 13, 2023

An interview with Jimmy Smith, a former NFL player (wide receiver), by Inonge Khabele

Jimmy Smith, a former NFL player, was interviewed about his involvement in the professional development company Ko Center Co. and how he was introduced to the idea of “flow” from the book “Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience” by Professor Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi. The company aims to bring Flow and education to people who don’t have access to it through the principles and practice of group Flow. In the interview, Jimmy Smith talks about his involvement in Late Shift, an interactive movie that utilizes flow and experiential learning to improve decision-making skills. He also discusses how Late Shift can revolutionize learning and development and help students and people with different learning styles.

I am the Chief Visionary Officer of Ko Center Co., aka “Ko,” a professional development company my late brother Khotso Khabele co-founded with Zoltan Papp, CEO. It’s a long story, but in short, Ko is in partnership with ALEAS Group and Ctrl Movie, producer of the interactive movie Late Shift. 

The secret sauce that ties all of us is the ground-breaking bestseller by the late Professor Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi: Flow: the Psychology of Optimal Experience. The methods in that book were what coach Jimmy Johnson used with his Dallas Cowboys team to have them win two consecutive Super Bowls (XXVII and XXVII) in 1993 and 1994. Jimmy Smith was a wide receiver for the Dallas Cowboys during those Super Bowl years. Jimmy Smith went on to play for the Jacksonville Jaguars, where he set 31 Jaguar franchise records, 5 NFL Pro Bowls, and NFL Hall of Fame nominations as one of the best wide receivers in the NFL.  

I confess that I know very little about football, but I absolutely remember the media buzz when the Dallas Cowboys won the Super Bowl. I remember very well when coach Jimmy Johnson held up Professor Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi’s Flow book during halftime and exclaimed: “My team has won because of this book. We did what is written in this book. Read this book! Flow!” In Swagger: Super Bowls, Brass Balls, and Footballs―A Memoir, Coach Jimmy Johnson wrote more about it. 

I could never have imagined that decades later, I’d be deeply immersed in the world of Flow and would teach Koherence – the principles and practice of Group Flow. 

I met Jimmy Smith almost three years ago. He has been involved with Ko (our GM of Level Up the Playing Field) since our beginning, and we have had many conversations about how to bring flow and education to people who don’t have access or means and how to meet people where they are creatively. 

Speak with Jimmy for only a few minutes, and it’s clear where his passion lies: with people. Yes, he is an NFL legend who has had his ups and downs in Flow, out of Flow, and back in Flow. He has beat the odds and put his energy into networking with veteran NFL players, mentoring upcoming players, and donating his time and money to help the underprivileged. 

Today, I speak with Jimmy about an alternative route to learning and development: experiential learning through gaming that is for everyone, and the potential to reach people for whom formal education is closed is phenomenal. The interactive movie Late Shift is just this. Plus, once the game is complete, a leadership metrics report is generated for your five leadership role skills and optimization and your VUCA-readiness, which can be used for you as an individual and for groups like teams, businesses, and even for relationships. It’s powerful, accurate, and improves decision-making skills, and brings FUN to learning and development. 

Inonge Khabele: Thank you, Jimmy, for taking the time to speak with me about how you were involved in two winning Super Bowls in a row on the eve of Super Bowl 2023. And now, for the past several years, you have been paying all of your successes forward. 

Jimmy Smith: Yes, one of the ways is my involvement with Ko, ALEAS, and Late Shift. The person who connected me to Flow is coach Jimmy Johnson. He used the methods, and we flowed to win those Super Bowls using Flow techniques. And now, its full circle back to Flow and bringing it to the community. 

Inonge: Noted. That would be awesome to interview him! Please speak about the work you are doing now and how you are connecting people. I’d like for you to talk about your experience playing Late Shift. 

Jimmy: Actually, before playing Late Shift, I thought I was an Influencer, but it turns out I am an Organizer. I was really surprised about that. This is a powerful tool for learning about yourself… who you really are, not necessarily who you think you are. I get it, and it’s needed because the interactive movie is good and it’s fun… It makes sense. I see how that could be useful, and it can be a whole dang curriculum on the school system. 

Inonge: How do you… if you had it your way and you could very easily bring Late Shift to everybody, how quickly would things transform?

Jimmy: You’ve got to have something that people get excited about to bring transformation. I see Late Shift and Flow as a program that needs to be installed in the community. It’s very effective and can be installed through school systems. Every kid learns differently. Some you’ve got to challenge… some you’ve got to take by the hand. Some you’ve got to kick in the butt. Some you’ve got to praise… you know? The power of Late Shift is like in schools, every child is an individual, and every child has their own learning style. Playing Late Shift does that.

It’s like the new interactive movies on Netflix. Have you seen them? They are powerful, but they don’t have the metrics. 

Inonge: With Late Shift, the more we play, the better we get at seeing the big picture and making better decisions. I think it’s excellent training because sometimes people do harmful things just because it doesn’t occur to them that there are so many other ways to deal with the situation. Often in life, many of our problems are from not even knowing that we have choices in the matter. Often, we are programmed to respond to certain things in very specific ways. But playing a game like Late Shift, helps to kind of… to see possibilities. 

Jimmy: It definitely helps with creative thinking. A lot of people don’t know what they do. They don’t play the tape all the way through to see and fully get themselves. Playing Late Shift gets you to see it, and you can play it again and watch your game tape over and see where you’re good and how you can do better in making tough decisions and working together with your group and team.

Inonge: Yes. The way I see it… it’s like the culture wants us to see things in, maybe at the most, three different ways to interpret a recurring problem or issue, with only three possibilities. In some cases, only one option. 

Jimmy: You just have to be yourself. Don’t think you have to be someone that you don’t even know how to be. 

A lot of these kids, growing up – they don’t know where they come from, or what they’re supposed to do, or why they’re here. They don’t know their history and themselves. 

Inonge: And you, Jimmy, have three generations of professional football players in your family: your father, Jimmy Smith Sr., you, and your son Jimmy “Trey” Johnson III. 

Jimmy: Yes, it’s a legacy. How many people have that? That’s what it’s about: legacy. Carrying good things forward. Sometimes I ask myself: what am I supposed to do right now? Was I born to be sitting up here every day…. Just watching TV and enjoying being a football star? What else am I supposed to do with this, and who am I supposed to do it with?

There was a reverential silence. I thought about how Jimmy hosted a Late Shift watch party at the Jacksonville Jaguars Bold City Brigade Draft Party in Vegas last year… and how relentless he is with connecting people. 

The interview concluded then with this powerful sentiment. It is one thing to have phenomenal success in life, but serving others by sharing wisdom, resources, and information is where one’s true purpose is fulfilled. 

I cannot think of a more apropos time for Flow to be revisited in popular culture. Super Bowl 2023 is the 30th Anniversary of Flow being introduced to the world. We have the tools and the opportunity to use algorithms in our human favor during this critical time when data and algorithms have increasing control over our lives. 

Jimmy Smith was on the cutting edge of a new conversation in sports and business in 1993 and 1994: a conversation that has been growing over the years. We are grateful for Jimmy’s involvement with us and for reaching out and connecting people and organizations that otherwise never meet. 

Happy Super Bowl LVII, 2023!